So… black women hate and are jealous of white women… and are too bitter to support feminism?

On a lot of bwe blogs many black women love to talk about the GAT-DL or Guarders of all things dark and lovely. Meaning they are a brigade of (usually) black women (and men sometimes) who feel the need to defend ANYTHING that has do with black people even to the detriment to themselves.  In the BWE world the GAT-DL are mocked for the way they without fail feel  the need to “white knight” for black folk. What I’ve noticed is  that while the GAT-DL  are told to take a seat, because BWE women can think for themselves the PDOBV- (proud defenders of boob and vag) are always out in full force. Further these women are lauded by some even when they aren’t saying anything valuable.

If you’d like to identify the PDOBV, look for any woman who calls themselves “progressive” or  “liberal” look for the women who voted for Barak Obama simply because he had such *great* plans for women. (And these women never talk about the faults of Barak Obama.. *gasp*  there are some) And if they didn’t support Barak Obama with all the fanboy techniques of the same women on Jezebel, chances are in some other way, they are always peddling… ahem,  talking about the benefits of  feminism. (Which usually goes only so far as birth control and abortion and they never take black women’s unique circumstances into account when they mention these policies) But the easiest way to identify the PDOBV  is by looking at their hobbies. One of  their favorite past times is to disparage anyone who doesn’t support feminism with the full  recklessness and abandon  as they would. For any woman who chooses to “opt out” the PDOBV loves to join the ranks of white feminists in the shame game

This is especially true for black women who are not only guilted but pressured and lied to until they are beaten into the feminist submission mold. ( I don’t ever here these PODBV trying to rally  and guilt the masses of white women into feminism, and *gasp* there ARE white women who don’t identify with feminism.

Usually the conversations that take place between the PODBV and  black women they are trying to convert always likes to glance at the history between black women and white women, but then quickly the conversation quickly comes back to how black women have shunned white women who have “given so many efforts to expand their sisterhood” *sarcasm off* while ignoring the pure racism that lies dormant within feminist society.

Let’s take a look at the article in question.  Who is obviously a great example of the PDOBV The author *surprisingly a black woman* states right off the bat,

Black women can’t stand white women. That’s really the crux of the matter and that is the primary reason why more black women don’t call themselves feminists—because black women and white women have an extremely difficult time working with each other. Anything that has even a whiff of white women on it will receive an almost visceral rejection by black women, because black women feel that if white women are involved, then it—whatever “it” happens to be—must surely be hostile to black women.

And, let’s be honest: Historically, white feminist women are returning the favor. White feminists have not been anywhere near as inclusive towards black women, or as understanding of the viewpoints of black women, as they could have been.

First off she attacks black women, using phrases like “can’t stand” to oversimplify relations. As if the reason why black women DON’T support feminists is because black women are wary of white feminists because of 400 years ago. She probably thinks if she oversimplifies things and brushes things under the carpet black women will be more malleable?

Let’s look at the real reasons that black women can’t, don’t, or won’t support feminism

  • White feminists from the very beginning didn’t actually want black women in “their movement”. Despite women like Sojourner  Truth who was writing “Ain’t I a woman at the same time.”  Early white feminists didn’t want black women in their movement because they didn’t want to talk about race (and their racial privilege )  in relation to sexism. They wanted their separate movement (but for black women it’s intersected) They didn’t want the power of “their” movement diluted by talk about race. (Susan B Anthony, if I’m not mistaken is one of them.)  Further for the women that did work with blacks it was more often than not with black MEN and not black women.
  • White feminists have benefited from racism and it is uncomfortable to have to be aware of this.  This is why you can go on any “progressive” feminist website and not only are the women dismissive of black women’s unique problems they can be down right racist.
  • The things that white women and black women want, because they are on opposities sides of the spectrum
  • White feminists not only  enjoy privileges based on race they also not only watch but participate in the degradation of black women.
  • White feminism only involves talking about how  racist/ sexist/ terrible /  white men are ( and its always white men, because of course black men CAN”T be colorist, sexist etc.) While these women now sympathize with the same black men who are making black women’s life a living nightmare.  Basically black women got tired of Dead beat black man apologizers and would rather not spend their time memorizing ever supposed infraction white men do (and again its always ONLY white men who can be racist/ sexist) and got tired of having to brush away the racism of  white WOMEN.
  • White feminism directly goes against what would be beneficial to other women of color.  For example trying to make “prostitution safe and legal” even though the majority of women who are prostitutes are women of color, poor, and NOT doing it by choice. They completely look over the women suffering for the happiness of a few instead of trying to find solutions to being poor and being forced into that lifestyle.
  • White feminism continues to ignore the black women who actually do show up.

To simplify black women and white women’s relations  in feminism as black women “not being able to stand” black women is completely smug and glib.

This author also sites Kassandra Perkins murder, and says that,

“Feminism provides a framework from which to understand the widespread violence used against black women to both exploit them, punish them, and to keep them in their place. Feminism from a black female perspective tackles the issue of the disintegration of the family in black communities and the effect that disintegration has had on black women. Feminism gives black women a theory (multiple theories, actually) to hang her hat on in an attempt to understand why lower class black people behave in certain ways and why black men and women have so many problems relating to one another.”

I find this funny that the author was sighting how feminism helps black women understand violence and domestic abuse.  Its actually ironic because many feminists didn’t even think this was a “domestic violence issue” but decided to turn it to the greater conversation about “gun violence.”

Indeed this is another sad display by a black woman who is trying desperately to enjoy the benefits that white feminists get although most of the time they do not receive actual support in real life.  Because when it comes to black women and feminism, there is always a bigger issue.

Further the author says,

“Can black women and white feminists agree on anything?

Many Black women are jealous and envious of white women. Whereas white feminists were angry and resentful about the limitations that patriarchy put upon them while simultaneously holding them up as the ideal of womanhood, black women were wishing that they could be up on that pedestal instead of cooking and cleaning as a domestic in the homes of white families. According to black women, white women actually had a good deal but they were too privileged to appreciate it. When white women were talking about wanting to go to work, they were thinking about professional careers which would allow them the full expression of their creative faculties—to many black women, work meant menial, rote labor which kept then away from their families and away from the care and upkeep of their homes. Viewed from these opposing perspectives, it is understandable why lower and working-class black women were not as vocally supportive as the average white woman of calls to enter the workforce and leave the home, especially when many black women were already in the workforce and not happy about it.”

This woman yet again likes to simplify black women’s supposed no support of feminism (although again this isn’t even true) to simple jealousy. Instead her sentence could read like this.

“Black women were pressured to join feminism and the call to work outside of the home (even though they’d had no choice but to do it all along). In actuality because of racism and a number of other intersecting factors these women, even if they chose to work outside of the home, or were welcome in feminism would have still been assigned to the menial roles. Further because of racism black women would not ,and in a large portion, have not been able to enjoy the benefits of working outside of the home in “creative “jobs.”

Let’s not twist history. That pisses me off. Instead let’s be honest about the fact, as I’ve said before that black women CAN not fully benefit from feminism fully because they are BLACK. No matter how condescending the author is that fact is inescapable.

To further her own stupidity she says later,

“Disagreement on one issue, such as fat positivity, does not mean that black women should reject feminism wholesale. There is no contract stating that in order to be a feminist you have to be fat positive”

Bitch Magazine declined to publish an interview with Caitin Moran after Moran gave a series of what some felt were racially insensitive replies to a twitter user. Feminist writer Jessica Valenti gave a nod to the importance that women of color assign to the role of motherhood and to how women of color view their status as “mother” in a different light than many middle-class white women.

Let’s not pretend that the disagreement that black women have with feminism can be condensed to one issue. Especially in modern feminism. But even if it was only one issue that there was disagreement on, it is too major to not create opposing factions.  Further, just because one feminist author  (who I personally can’t stand btw) gives a “nod” ,after 50+ years of feminists ignoring black women’s thoughts and now finally surrendering the point, lets not pretend this is some great  feat.  If it took fifty years to get a “nod”from one hack feminist btw, on the importance of motherhood how long do you think it will take white feminists to actually call out black ( c )rapper misogynists instead of giving them a pass because “they’re oppressed too”?

She then hammers home her points by saying.

Many white feminists are now attempting to join hands across class and racial boundaries in support of the creation of a liberal welfare state, such a state would undoubtedly greatly benefit poor black mothers who need all of the help they can get. Here is where I think the dissention between black women and white feminists comes in.

{….}

Black women want husbands not just to help raise children and elevate the family out of poverty, but because most black women are heterosexual they always want a relationship with a man for companionship and comfort reasons.

In other words, too many feminists are failing to grasp the desires and wishes of black women because said white women lived a different experience. Black women and white women are talking past each other—again.

Again let’s not simplify things. It is not “talking past” is two groups that want completely different things. And that is alright. But lets not try and guilt black women to  spend their lives trying to find a way to agree with feminists instead of going after their own dreams. Not only is it not possible for black women to really benefit if their was agreement but it gets in the way of black women enjoying themselves.

Secondly I find it is also a pure lie that white feminists are putting out the hand for black women and black women are, with usual jezebel bitterness shunning them. Instead what I see are white feminists who create conversations that surround themselves and their own experiences and then decide when they are going to “grant” black feminists a voice.  Further any conversation that involves black women quickly becomes a bigger issue that white women turn into their own unique issue and somehow black women get pushed out of the way. (see conversations on street harassment. I hear many women speak that when they went to india they were the only one’s who were harassed because they were “soooo fair”  (as if black women weren’t harassed daily.)

What is a global woman’s issue turns into a white issue and black women get their voices silenced.

Her final point is:

“ History will always be written by those who bothered to show up. The agenda will always be set by those who attend the meeting. And by black women’s continual rejection of both their invitation to attend the feminist meeting, they are accepting the continued marginalization of black women’s needs and interests both within the feminist movement and within the world at large

And yet, feminism the movement and feminists the people are not perfect. There is room for tremendous growth within the feminist movement and the voices of black women with different viewpoints are appreciated and needed. If black women want to be understood then they must speak up.”

This paragraph should read like this.

“History will always be written by those who have the privilege. Indeed, the ones who have privilege are the ones who even get to show up in the first place. The agenda will always be set by those who have the privilege to put their issues in the front and ignore all the others.

It is accepting marginalization to continue to work with an “organization” that has proven it neither works nor cares about the lives of black women. It is demented to keep banging your head on a concrete wall.

Further there is no room for further growth in feminism because it has been proven by many black women that intersectionality keeps black women from being heard or benefiting from feminism. Black women need to STOP waiting around for white women to make choices.”

Finally these PDOBV are never on board with black men who say similar things. Imagine if a black man told this black woman that the only way to benefit as a black person would be to align                                                    themselves with black men and that black men have always wanted to work with black women (even though sexism clearly proves otherwise) and that black women are just bitter. This woman and many other PDOBV would have a conniption fit.  So I can’t help scratching my head that this black women had the nerve to insult black women who have desperately been trying and failing to get a feminist voice as if they were never there or as if white feminists A) created feminism or  B) black women are just being difficult.

Women like this  are similar to the same people who now want to live in a “color blind” society and say that black people , or other people of color are being racist for even brining up race.   As if blacks were born in their own racist vacuum or had the privilege of ignoring race.

For black women to fully join feminism they would have to not acknowledge their blackness (which I’ve said before is impossible) because to do otherwise in this community is “divisive”. Women like this just don’t see that white feminists can NEVER be fully equal to white men if they don’t hold on to BOTH race and sex privilege. Most women won’t  give that up for some misguided attempt at sisterhood. What will be sad though is when this woman’s house of cards falls she’s going to wonder what went wrong.

 

23 thoughts on “So… black women hate and are jealous of white women… and are too bitter to support feminism?

  1. I want to start by saying that I have nothing against BW who want to throw in their lot with White feminists. Good luck to them! They’ll need it. I have nothing against BW who want to be feminists and push that agenda, to their own (our) detriment, but when they start throwing the rest of us under the bus to achieve their “feminists” goals, they can go screw themselves!

    “Black women are simply jealous of WW?” Right. I have personally been the victim of far too many jealous, evil-hearted WW to buy into that giant load of bull sh*t. In fact, every BW I know has been put through something by a WW at some time (or several) in their life. Can all WW say the same of BW? Doubtful.

    I know you read my post on the tennis heifer CW, and so you know what happened to me at my workplace. My WW abuser was a rabid feminist (like most of the other WW haters I’ve encountered over the years). Always bitching about how the WM were getting all the promotions and responsibility, and poor poor her and other WW in the office were getting nothing for their hard work (and she specified “White women”). This coming from a woman who didn’t even want to take responsibility for her own racist / misogynist on-the-job behavior. LOL.

    The BW who wrote the post you are quoting from is a mammy and an idiot. And not just for supporting those who don’t give a rat’s crap about her or anyone who shares her ethnicity, but because she is willing to throw other BW under the bus to curry favor with such people. If I were going to swear my allegiance to a group of people, it would be one that actually has my back. I don’t need fair weather friends / alliances. None of us do.

    “Women like this  are similar to the same people who now want to live in a “color blind” society and say that black people , or other people of color are being racist for even bringing up race.   As if blacks were born in their own racist vacuum or had the privilege of ignoring race.”
    ~onelesssoldier

    YES! Exactly. Hey, let’s walk into a KKK meeting and have a seat; just to see what’s going on. I’m sure they won’t notice. *eyeroll*

    I cannot stand people who say that color blind crap to me. If you require blindness to treat someone like a Human being you are racist AND in denial! NEVER trust someone who utters that phrase. My husband is White and I noticed it right off. I am Black and he noticed that right off. We SAW each other, got to know each other, fell in love and got married, all without use of a blindfold.

    “Women like this just don’t see that white feminists can NEVER be fully equal to white men if they don’t hold on to BOTH race and sex privilege. Most women won’t  give that up for some misguided attempt at sisterhood. What will be sad though is when this woman’s house of cards falls she’s going to wonder what went wrong.”
    ~onelesssoldier

    *Nodding in agreement* Racism benefits them, and since it does benefit them, why in the world would they want to eradicate racism? Racism is their friend. Most feminists I’ve encountered are racist and entitled themselves, and even the ones who are not understand that they hurt their own cause by supporting the interests of BW (and women of color in general) which is why they do not and never will.

    Remember when No Wedding No Womb first took off, and some WW feminists were angry that Chrystelyn didn’t get their permission to promote an agenda to help BW and girls? That is typical of the mindset I have witnessed in most of these feminists. They were pissed off because she did not give them a chance to make it about them and their White community. This annoyed them. A LOT. Some are still bitching about not being included (that’s how I found out about NWNW in the first place), others are trying to make OOW births “normal” and acceptable. SMH.

    Great post! You always know what’s going on with these fools. :)

    • I want to start by saying that I have nothing against BW who want to throw in their lot with White feminists. Good luck to them! They’ll need it. I have nothing against BW who want to be feminists and push that agenda, to their own (our) detriment, but when they start throwing the rest of us under the bus to achieve their “feminists” goals, they can go screw themselves!

      I agree! In fact the only reason why I ever started blogging was beccause of the hypocrisy I saw from people claiming to “care” about black women. That’s when I have to say suck an egg.

      Right. I have personally been the victim of far too many jealous, evil-hearted WW to buy into that giant load of bull sh*t. In fact, every BW I know has been put through something by a WW at some time (or several) in their life. Can all WW say the same of BW? Doubtful.

      I know you read my post on the tennis heifer CW, and so you know what happened to me at my workplace. My WW abuser was a rabid feminist (like most of the other WW haters I’ve encountered over the years). Always bitching about how the WM were getting all the promotions and responsibility, and poor poor her and other WW in the office were getting nothing for their hard work (and she specified “White women”). This coming from a woman who didn’t even want to take responsibility for her own racist / misogynist on-the-job behavior. LOL.

      Yep they’re always rabid feminists. I remember once in 11th grade white girl told me with relief how she was “so glad she wasnt black because she could see the scars on my legs” or something like that
      And when i replied back nastily at her rudeness she looked at me with wide, hurt eyes wondering why I was pissed and saying she wasn’t “trying to be mean”and it wasnt “what she meant”. of course I was the crazy bitch for getting angry.

      I know you read my post on the tennis heifer CW, and so you know what happened to me at my workplace. My WW abuser was a rabid feminist (like most of the other WW haters I’ve encountered over the years). Always bitching about how the WM were getting all the promotions and responsibility, and poor poor her and other WW in the office were getting nothing for their hard work (and she specified “White women”). This coming from a woman who didn’t even want to take responsibility for her own racist / misogynist on-the-job behavior. LOL.

      The BW who wrote the post you are quoting from is a mammy and an idiot. And not just for supporting those who don’t give a rat’s crap about her or anyone who shares her ethnicity, but because she is willing to throw other BW under the bus to curry favor with such people. If I were going to swear my allegiance to a group of people, it would be one that actually has my back. I don’t need fair weather friends / alliances. None of us do.

      Thank you for this. I am writing a post dedicated to what you said about her being a mammy. Thanks! I couldn’t have said it better.

      cannot stand people who say that color blind crap to me. If you require blindness to treat someone like a Human being you are racist AND in denial! NEVER trust someone who utters that phrase. My husband is White and I noticed it right off. I am Black and he noticed that right off. We SAW each other, got to know each other, fell in love and got married, all without use of a blindfold.

      So true!

      Remember when No Wedding No Womb first took off, and some WW feminists were angry that Chrystelyn didn’t get their permission to promote an agenda to help BW and girls? That is typical of the mindset I have witnessed in most of these feminists. They were pissed off because she did not give them a chance to make it about them and their White community. This annoyed them. A LOT. Some are still bitching about not being included (that’s how I found out about NWNW in the first place), others are trying to make OOW births “normal” and acceptable. SMH.

      Great post! You always know what’s going on with these fools.

      Can you expand on this? I hear about this from time to time but what exactly happened. I was a bit too young and wasn’t on the bwe scene when it happened.

      • I wasn’t on the blogs when NWNW got started, but I discovered the movement almost two years ago, when I was reading a rant about it on Twitter. That lead me to a blog post by a WW feminist, which name Beyond Black & White. I googled it, found the blog and read some of the old posts on the subject and discovered new ones as well.

        Not sure what happened between Chrystelyn Karazin and the feminists who were the most vocal about it, but over time details have come out from Chrystelyn herself. She’s one of my FB friends.

        She recently made a video about the problem she continues to have with feminists. The video is called Is Christelyn Karazin Anti-Feminist? Here’s a link to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oszl43I4GVU

        I don’t even know why she cares what these beyotches think. I sure as heck don’t.

    • This is a lil’ bitlate, but I only just stumbled into this website site. Anyways, I have ALWAYS hated the phrase “colour blind” and could never articulate why, until I read this sentence. ” If you require blindness to treat someone like a Human being you are racist AND in denial! NEVER trust someone who utters that phrase.” Thank you! :)

  2. That blog is poison to BW. I advise everyone I know to steer clear. They are known for calling Black women bitter and just ragging on Black women wholesale. I dont know how anyone who thinks critically can go there for information.

    The owner of that website allows all sorts of irrational discussions and abusive DBRs to comment and berate the other commentators. Its not surprising that they would post something that would hasten the death of Black women. This is what they do. That blog owner and its writers are there to take advantage of Black women by making them feel bad about themselves (they are on record as referring to fat Black women as whales), and to bilk them out of money selling those swirl seminars.

    Black women in no shape or form are jealous of ww. Lets just get that straight and into the universe. It is the complete opposite. The writer of that post wants a Scooby Snack and a pat on the head and entrance to a club which she will never be accepted. She is still treating Black women as inferior because essentially what she is saying is that we are incapable of having our own voice and viable movement. Meaning we MUST join feminism to make our issues valid.

    We have to charge BW like her and that entire blog to the game and keep as many sensible women away from their grips as possibe. In fact and you can shut me down, I think it advisible to remove the link from your post. They dont deserve the traffic and the excerpts you highlighted are evidence enough.

    • That blog is poison to BW. I advise everyone I know to steer clear. They are known for calling Black women bitter and just ragging on Black women wholesale. I dont know how anyone who thinks critically can go there for information.

      The owner of that website allows all sorts of irrational discussions and abusive DBRs to comment and berate the other commentators. Its not surprising that they would post something that would hasten the death of Black women. This is what they do. That blog owner and its writers are there to take advantage of Black women by making them feel bad about themselves (they are on record as referring to fat Black women as whales), and to bilk them out of money selling those swirl seminars.

      while i have no problems with Chrystelin some of the things others on the site write have me scratching my head. I also seem to remember an article about how happy they were for a black woman marrying someone in the MOB!

      Black women in no shape or form are jealous of ww. Lets just get that straight and into the universe. It is the complete opposite. The writer of that post wants a Scooby Snack and a pat on the head and entrance to a club which she will never be accepted. She is still treating Black women as inferior because essentially what she is saying is that we are incapable of having our own voice and viable movement. Meaning we MUST join feminism to make our issues valid.

      We have to charge BW like her and that entire blog to the game and keep as many sensible women away from their grips as possibe. In fact and you can shut me down, I think it advisible to remove the link from your post. They dont deserve the traffic and the excerpts you highlighted are evidence enough.

      *Stands up and applauds.& You are so right. Ill take the link down.

      • “Not to mention how nasty they can get if you don’t wuv barak obama or support their politics. I also seem to remember an article about how happy they were for a black woman marrying someone in the MOB! simply because he was white! NO thank you! ”
        ~onelesssoldier

        I’m not a big fan of Obama either, but I know I better keep that to myself with most of these BW bloggers. They think that it actually means something that a half BM is in the White House, despite the fact that he is ignoring issues that relate to Black folks.

        I re-read the “MOB” part. Is that a typo?? Or are they insane. They would have to be. Are you sure that post on the mob wasn’t just a joke?

  3. Pingback: How black women became feminism’s Mammy… and Womanism’s wet nurse. « notyourgirlfriday

  4. Pingback: Whatever I am, You Made Me… And When Will Black Women Stop Mammying? | notyourgirlfriday

  5. I don’t see how this is relevant to the post. For starters while there are plenty of black women who are jealous of white women for a variety of reasons there are plenty of white women who feel the same way. There are PLENTy of horror stories about black women being treated like crap at work by their fellow ww coworkers or stories of sabotauge. That is not relevant to the post either.

    The woman who wrote the article postulated that the reason why black women refused to support feminism was because they were jealous. this skews the issue becuase the reason why the majority of black women don’t suport feminism is because they either didn’t benefit or they were treated like garbage because of racism within the movement.

    Finally, I’m not sure you haven’t just created an oxymoron. On the one hand you say many black women are jealous of white women but on the other black women managed to support white women with feminism? Doesn’t make sense.

  6. You are so right b/c the thought pattern of certain black females make no sense. I’m talking about ignorant females. I’m around them enough to know how confused they are. From the teenage female to the elderly–they are indeed troubled. Many of the problems they have are self-inflicted and since they don’t want anyone to know this, they’ll start blaming their problems on the whole world. They live in make-believe world where they expect everyone to cater to them. That’s not gonna happen no matter how much they cry and complain, which they’ve been doing for years.

    • onelesssoldier and Tia,

      You are absolutely correct. I’m soooo sorry. PLEASE except my apology. I have read the article and realized that I mistook it for another article w/ a closely related topic. I must’ve assumed that I was commenting on that one b/c both articles were set on the comments section. I hope you all will forgive me. By all means, it wasn’t intentional. Is it possible for you to delete my comments since they are WAY off topic? I would really appreciate it.

  7. I just wanna say….THANK YOU! I have been feeling the same way but getting little support from other BW on this issue. Being in my 30s, I began to notice this about 6yrs ago. I can’t stand that “Can’t we all just get along. The white man wants to conquer and divide us crap. We should be colorblind…nonsense.” As a teen in school, I realized that the WW feminist movement had ZERO to do with black women in particular.

    I have come across devil-hearted white and other non-black women, period. No one ever seems to wanna notice this issue, though. While I don’t hate anyone and I believe as a group we must have alliances to be successful in improving our community’s situation, I know that we should focus mainly on Black American/African women even before including other women of color. I have experienced racism from some of them as well.

    • Welcome to NYGF.

      I agree that the focus needs to be on other Black women simply because many times other “women of color” have been only too quick to throw black women collectively under the bus.

  8. Pingback: Just a friendly reminder……… | NEECY'S NEST

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